Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2021 17:39:26 GMT -5
Let me preface this by stating I have been in or involved with over 200 dynasty leagues in my heyday(5 years ago i was in max leagues on every major site all dynasty and was on the rules committee for most)
I see 2 existing problems with how prospects are handled
1. The inability to add old prospects outside of the yearly draft (solution would be to have rolling waivers to add any old prospects that have gone undrafted to this point)
2. It is a huge disadvantage to the less experienced and/or replacement owners that will come through our doors to have draft prospects taken the year before they are drafted and even signed in mlb (and already has me seriously concerned for anyone being able to beat kyle from 2024-2030) solution is also simple players must be drafted and signed or in the case of intl free agents signed to be drafted going forward)
These are 2 pretty much standardized rules across dynasty
|
|
|
Post by Brewers (Kyle) on Jul 22, 2021 18:52:10 GMT -5
First off, thank you for being active enough to comment on the rules, and thank you for the 24-30 compliment. My experience of 4+ years has been in this and a similar league, so your knowledge is likely wider.
Can you please elaborate on 'old prospects' - as any player who has played in a MLB game is able to be bid on (if a player is called up, they can be bid on when the game starts and they're on the MLB roster).
Any player that's not an MLB player is a 'prospect' - that's why an 18 year old is on the Yankees prospects [Sidebar, not all prospects end up living up to their potential].
I dont mind a rules discussion, but I disagree that prospects should be forced a contract.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2021 19:16:09 GMT -5
First off, thank you for being active enough to comment on the rules, and thank you for the 24-30 compliment. My experience of 4+ years has been in this and a similar league, so your knowledge is likely wider. Can you please elaborate on 'old prospects' - as any player who has played in a MLB game is able to be bid on (if a player is called up, they can be bid on when the game starts and they're on the MLB roster). Any player that's not an MLB player is a 'prospect' - that's why an 18 year old is on the Yankees prospects [Sidebar, not all prospects end up living up to their potential]. I dont mind a rules discussion, but I disagree that prospects should be forced a contract. not saying forced per say more like for example i can see upwards of 15 consensus top 100 prospects(with the official rankings updating next month) that aren't owned many of which who have been in the minors for years having them only accessible in the draft seems detrimental vs having that exclusively be for new prospects ie the newest draft class and intl free agent signing period) ill give a couple examples because if it changes i dont want to tip my entire hand but at first glance Tyler Soderstrom Andy Pages Cole Winn Seth Corry and i could and will on request name at least 200 more now where these 2 issues overlap is you can never take a guy like that who is solid but not a mega prospect in the draft when you can just draft the no.1 pick a year from now and then if you take the prospect someone like you and a couple other teams who has already cornered the market can just constantly add top 100 prospects to the back end of your prospects it just really doesn't work for the long term health of a dynasty league if that all makes sense (Sometimes it doesn't)
|
|
|
Post by Astros (Mike) on Jul 22, 2021 21:24:17 GMT -5
My take:
1. Old prospects such as Soderstrom should definitely go back into the draft.
2. I don’t like that players can be drafted before they have been drafted or signed to an MLB team or its minor league affiliate.
Don’t really care strongly either way and certainly won’t argue the current rules - thats just what seems most reasonable to me.
|
|
|
Post by Brewers (Kyle) on Jul 22, 2021 21:50:43 GMT -5
Having 15 top 100 prospects will be great for the draft. If they wouldn't be available in the draft (because someone bid on them in the season) it would defeat the whole draft. Why would anyone care about the draft if there wasn't anyone good to get? [Yes, I know some would still care about it].
Cubs, are you saying something similar to Astros: a prospect is someone drafted or on a minor league team? If so, I would disagree as the next "mike trout" is a no-name in high school who we can take a crapshot trying to get many years in advance. Most of the time it's a good player, but it could always be a bust too.
The advantage of the first pick going to the worst team is the incentive to turn the team around (in my eyes). If someone perpetually is in the bottom 5 and doesn't have a plan to get out of it probably should be replaced. Honestly, that's why I went the route I did. I'm in another league where I've been doing really well and wanted to challenge myself with a rebuild team, so I traded away current talent/mlb picks (and more) to load up for 2025.
I dont think I follow your last point of: you can't take [player] in the draft, because you can draft the #1... I confused.
Astros, thank you for the input. Agree on Soderstorm, disagree on draft limitations. If the Brewers want to go out and sign a 12-year old, they can [well, don't know about that young, but you get my point], so should this league. You are the Owner of your team. Own it (yeah, too cheasy).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2021 22:53:37 GMT -5
There are currently at least 170 guys not owned here that I own across other dynasty leagues just as an example. There isn't enough draft available for those guys to ever get owned while prospects because you would never draft them over Adley or Torkelson or Leiter who are going to go from the draft right into the top 25 overall prospects and leaves it to be you can only get them once everyone else realizes how good they are when they actually make it to the majors.
My 2nd point is no one is ever going to be in a position to draft say Luis Medina or Ben Leeper because you would never take those over say jack leiter or last year Spencer Torkelson etc but if the draft is yearly just the players drafted in that years mlb draft+players signed in that year's international signing period you have a smooth 3 round draft of mostly top 100 talent and you don't have situations where top 25 guys like jack leiter and jordan lawlar are drafted in round 2 after guys who weren't even top 500 prospects when they got the call (looking at you Dean Kremer)
|
|
|
Post by Orioles (Rook) (Commish) on Jul 23, 2021 2:16:21 GMT -5
I certainly understand each point of view towards prospects. The points are valid, intelligent and wise from years of experience.
I need to explain a little history…..There are two other exact leagues like this one. Year 8 the original league of which I joined three-four years ago. Another league in Year 2 which I started last year and this league which I started this year. I fell in love with the original league immediately, bought into the concept, and have enjoyed it immensely ever since. So much so, that I copied the league identically and started my own league. Is was a big success the first year so I added a second league this year. Twice the fun but twice the work. I’m retired so I had the time.
Discussions like this one have been discussed in the original league. The owners of that league do not like Fantrax and aren’t interested in changing from Yahoo. A possible change to Fantrax will never go to a vote of managers. I’ve tried Fantrax for several years and just don’t like it. Both times, I quit and came back to Yahoo. I just flat out don’t like the layout, graphics, etc.
In the Official rules in both of my leagues I stated we will never go to Fantrax. Having spent countless hours in both leagues setting up and maintaining things I have to enjoy what I do. It’s my job to find 19 other managers who like this concept, not to change the concept. We also have managers in one, two or all three leagues. It’s important to have a seamless transition going from one league to the other. None of us have to remember each leagues rules differences.
Yes, with Fantrax we could have almost countless prospect drafting rounds but it will only be players signed to minor league contracts. Fantrax has no provision to draft high school players, college players, foreign youth in Hispanic countries or guess which Asian players may make the jump to the USA. That’s unique to this league. There is room in fantasy play for this format.
About Kyle dominating in 2024 to 2028. Each manager has the ability to take their team in the direction they want to go. Most managers would not want to make daily roster changes being in last place for a couple of years. It’s hard enough to keep managers with teams at the top of the standings. The Youth (anyone under my age of 68, lol) can’t stay focused in anything they do for very long. let alone be patient for several years with a bad team.
Being a free league, it’s also hard to find 19 other managers who have an interest in a 20 round prospect draft. Not everyone puts the effort into studying and scouting players, especially getting into knowing who the high school kids are. Many guys won’t put the time into knowing who the signed prospects are with a 20 round draft on Fantrax.
I’m showing my age with the following expression. I don’t want to “buzz kill” this conversation but as politely as I can put it, the prospect draft set up isn’t changing. We have a unique concept. I don’t want to be like other leagues.
We could address the number of drafting rounds and the maximum number of prospects each team can have (25 currently).
Thanks for listening.
|
|
|
Post by White Sox (Rodger) on Jul 23, 2021 3:57:44 GMT -5
Like Rook said you bring up some valid points Chad.
I must admit when I first joined Rooks initial league last year I had a few similar thoughts about drafting undrafted players in high school. But now I see it as a selling point for the league it's not like all other leagues and it gives managers another way to try and build their roster.
I do think we should look at number of rounds drafted and prospect numbers though and I personally feel they could both be increased?
|
|
|
prospects
Jul 23, 2021 5:52:13 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Brewers (Kyle) on Jul 23, 2021 5:52:13 GMT -5
Rook, I disagree with drafts over 5 rounds. The more draft rounds, the more disparity between people who studied prospects and people who Googled quick to find a player.
I like the fun 4th round idea here, and am intrigued to see if it's just a fun quip or if it'll actually help a team. I'm guessing 1 player every 5 years will be meaningful, but I do still like the idea/concept.
Before joining this league (and doing this rebuild on purpose) I didn't spend hardly any time looking at/knowing prospects. Now I still view them as shotgun shells, because you never know what you'll get, but it has opened up my eyes and will help my other league with this knowledge. If I would've crashed and burned (which may still happen), ill have learned and readjust.
Yes, it's odd for a loyal manager to purposely see this through (36 year old here, kids these days...), but my thought concept was to let other Managers have fun and try to win, I can sit in the shadows for a few years, and hopefully I am rewarded for it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2021 8:04:45 GMT -5
I certainly understand each point of view towards prospects. The points are valid, intelligent and wise from years of experience. I need to explain a little history…..There are two other exact leagues like this one. Year 8 the original league of which I joined three-four years ago. Another league in Year 2 which I started last year and this league which I started this year. I fell in love with the original league immediately, bought into the concept, and have enjoyed it immensely ever since. So much so, that I copied the league identically and started my own league. Is was a big success the first year so I added a second league this year. Twice the fun but twice the work. I’m retired so I had the time. Discussions like this one have been discussed in the original league. The owners of that league do not like Fantrax and aren’t interested in changing from Yahoo. A possible change to Fantrax will never go to a vote of managers. I’ve tried Fantrax for several years and just don’t like it. Both times, I quit and came back to Yahoo. I just flat out don’t like the layout, graphics, etc. In the Official rules in both of my leagues I stated we will never go to Fantrax. Having spent countless hours in both leagues setting up and maintaining things I have to enjoy what I do. It’s my job to find 19 other managers who like this concept, not to change the concept. We also have managers in one, two or all three leagues. It’s important to have a seamless transition going from one league to the other. None of us have to remember each leagues rules differences. Yes, with Fantrax we could have almost countless prospect drafting rounds but it will only be players signed to minor league contracts. Fantrax has no provision to draft high school players, college players, foreign youth in Hispanic countries or guess which Asian players may make the jump to the USA. That’s unique to this league. There is room in fantasy play for this format. About Kyle dominating in 2024 to 2028. Each manager has the ability to take their team in the direction they want to go. Most managers would not want to make daily roster changes being in last place for a couple of years. It’s hard enough to keep managers with teams at the top of the standings. The Youth (anyone under my age of 68, lol) can’t stay focused in anything they do for very long. let alone be patient for several years with a bad team. Being a free league, it’s also hard to find 19 other managers who have an interest in a 20 round prospect draft. Not everyone puts the effort into studying and scouting players, especially getting into knowing who the high school kids are. Many guys won’t put the time into knowing who the signed prospects are with a 20 round draft on Fantrax. I’m showing my age with the following expression. I don’t want to “buzz kill” this conversation but as politely as I can put it, the prospect draft set up isn’t changing. We have a unique concept. I don’t want to be like other leagues. We could address the number of drafting rounds and the maximum number of prospects each team can have (25 currently). Thanks for listening. We don’t need a bigger prospect draft or fantrax or anything fancy just the ability to waiver claim existing prospects I also disagree on the youth point since I will intentionally be at the bottom for awhile to combat the current dynamics
|
|
|
Post by Brewers (Kyle) on Jul 23, 2021 9:02:12 GMT -5
If waiver claims are allowed on existing prospects, the draft would be pointless. If you put in a claim on all 15 of your top 100 prospects, then what would the draft look like? I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree.
If you want more draft picks, I would suggest trading for other teams' picks [sidebar, I love trading - most teams on here know this - so feel free to discuss a trade with me]. At one point I had 11 draft picks (on top of the 20ish Prospects), so I scaled back to 7 currently. If a team knows nothing about prospects and doesn't want to put the time in (this is me in my other league where most years I'd trade away my draft picks for MLB talent - a strategy that's worked quite well), than it's a win-win (you get the prospect, they get the MLB talent).
I don't understand your 'youth point' and 'bottom for awhile' points. Yes, You'll likely be on the bottom for a few years, but that's the joy of rubbing it in peoples faces when you do win (my point of view). Figure out a way to not be at the bottom (which is very easy to say, a lot of work to perform). If you would like to further discuss these, and bounce some ideas back and forth, feel free to Message me (and/or other Admin). One advantage of these leagues is active managers means active conversations. We may disagree, but at least we can find out what people are thinking and maybe that leads to an altering of a rule.
There are strategies in place to help out a new owner, they get an extra draft pick and they get to drop an ugly contract free the following offseason.
If White Sox would like a separate topic on number of draft rounds, I will disagree, but that can be opened up in a separate topic discussion.
With all of that said, the draft/prospect rules will stay the same: Draft picks can be used to pick up anyone without MLB experience (minor leaguer, High Schooler, Vlad Jr's Baby, your ugly 3rd cousin once removed). There was not sufficient support to change.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2021 9:36:01 GMT -5
If waiver claims are allowed on existing prospects, the draft would be pointless. If you put in a claim on all 15 of your top 100 prospects, then what would the draft look like? I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree. If you want more draft picks, I would suggest trading for other teams' picks [sidebar, I love trading - most teams on here know this - so feel free to discuss a trade with me]. At one point I had 11 draft picks (on top of the 20ish Prospects), so I scaled back to 7 currently. If a team knows nothing about prospects and doesn't want to put the time in (this is me in my other league where most years I'd trade away my draft picks for MLB talent - a strategy that's worked quite well), than it's a win-win (you get the prospect, they get the MLB talent). I don't understand your 'youth point' and 'bottom for awhile' points. Yes, You'll likely be on the bottom for a few years, but that's the joy of rubbing it in peoples faces when you do win (my point of view). Figure out a way to not be at the bottom (which is very easy to say, a lot of work to perform). If you would like to further discuss these, and bounce some ideas back and forth, feel free to Message me (and/or other Admin). One advantage of these leagues is active managers means active conversations. We may disagree, but at least we can find out what people are thinking and maybe that leads to an altering of a rule. There are strategies in place to help out a new owner, they get an extra draft pick and they get to drop an ugly contract free the following offseason. If White Sox would like a separate topic on number of draft rounds, I will disagree, but that can be opened up in a separate topic discussion. With all of that said, the draft/prospect rules will stay the same: Draft picks can be used to pick up anyone without MLB experience (minor leaguer, High Schooler, Vlad Jr's Baby, your ugly 3rd cousin once removed). There was not sufficient support to change. It would look similar to the MLB draft. Example Rd1 Jack Leiter Jordan Lawlar Oscar Colas Henry Davis Jackson Jobe Marcelo Mayer Khalil Watson Brady House Kumar Rocker Gunner Hoglund Trey Sweeney Matt Mclain Harry Ford Andrew Painter Will Bednar Colton Cowser Frank Mozzicato Max Muncy Chase Petty Benny Montgomery Rd2 more mlb rd1 picks more intl players ( i cant provide a list because I don't actually know the class yet because of the unique circumstances this year dip into rd 2 of the mlb draft Rd 3 Deep Sleeper late round draft picks (maybe a guy who got drafted in rd9 but is the son of a hall of famer or someone who fell because they had tommy john surgery)
|
|
|
prospects
Jul 23, 2021 10:33:10 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Rays (Brett) on Jul 23, 2021 10:33:10 GMT -5
I think the current system increases the value of picks. All the new owners quickly discovered this (based on numerous failed trade attempts), and I think that is good. I’ll have a pretty interesting decision with the 1st pick to go with either a newly drafted player or a guy who was Undrafted in our league that has moved up in recent rankings.
It has been fun finding those guys that aren’t owned that could be available to anyone(at the right price) once called up. I think of Manoah, Muller, or India as examples.
I think it is weird that my 8year old son is eligible for our draft, but I’m fine if someone else wants to use a draft pick that way.
As for Kyle’s situation, he’ll have some hard truths with the prospect cap and roster limit both now and in the future. That’s not to mention the risk in prospects in general.
I’ve already made a number of decisions based on the current format with futures years in mind and wouldn’t appreciate drastic rule changes.
The only rule changes I’d support would be adding another round but wouldn’t super excited about it and going from using OPS to OBP.
|
|
|
Post by White Sox (Rodger) on Jul 23, 2021 11:36:50 GMT -5
I’m not going to start up a discussion on extra rounds. Like they say ‘if it ain’t broke don’t fix it’ but if it did ever came up for vote I’d vote for an extra round or two! But I’m completely fine as we are!
|
|
|
Post by Orioles (Rook) (Commish) on Jul 23, 2021 15:51:02 GMT -5
<<<From Rays …It has been fun finding those guys that aren’t owned that could be available to anyone(at the right price) once called up. I think of Manoah, Muller, or India as examples>>>
I agree with this. I like seeing unowned quality prospects available to bid on when they are called up
<<<From the Rays… I think it is weird that my 8year old son is eligible for our draft, but I’m fine if someone else wants to use a draft pick that way.>>> In the Original league Jud Fabian, Brady House and perhaps a few others were drafted as High School Juniors. Perhaps drafted players should be at least seniors before being drafted. I’m thinking when Bryce Harper became known in high school with all that hype a manager may have drafted him as a 15-16 year old Sophomore with our rules. That’s not an 8 year old, but pretty darn young. We shouldn’t draft 16-17 year olds. I doubt they can sign a minor league contract at that age anyway.
|
|